FoldingText 0.5
- Added Signed with Developer ID so should run on OS X 10.8 in default configuration.
- Added Option-Tab to force insert a tab (instead of increase level of current line)
- Added Option-Return to force insert newline (no auto-lists or auto-whitespace)
- Changed Syntax hiding so that line level syntax (#'s for example) is always displayed for current line.
- Fixed Recognise headers that don't have space after leading # character.
- Fixed Bug where you could only have a single link embedded in each line.
- Fixed Click on Markdown reference link will open link from referenced link definition.
You can download it from www.foldingtext.com, or direct download here.
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2 Posted by matt.m.crider on 24 Jun, 2012 04:59 AM
Jesse,
Version 0.5 is awesome. But, I have one complaint. Why was it necessary to ALWAYS show line level syntax when one is on the line, rather than when the cursor is at the left edge only?
This just seems silly to me. Can't one tell that he is on a heading without having to see the #'s? Does the user have to know how many are there? Can't he just tab or shift-tab to make it larger or smaller? Won't the appearance be a better indicator for the user than 'I wonder how many #'s there are on this line?' And, can't the user still locate the cursor to the left edge and see the syntax, if he really wants to know?
And, doesn't the user know he's on a numbered list or a bulleted list without having to see the line level syntax? Puh-lease tell me this is going to be a preference item. I don't mind Folding Text being geek-friendly, but aren't there enough apps for geeks? REALLY!?!?! (Said in a Seth Meyers voice.)
I can't think of any good reason that it's there other than to say, "Hey, look at me, I'm really a geeky software.....really, I am." But, isn't the fact that geeks find things out about software the very thing that makes them geeks? So, why put it there for them to see easily. Don't take the joy of finding that feature away from the geeks! Plus, you'll just tick off the non-geek users who can't understand why software developers don't understand their needs.
Puh-lease! I implore you!
Matt
Support Staff 3 Posted by Jesse Grosjean on 24 Jun, 2012 05:41 PM
I think it's arguable either way, but the new behavior makes logical sense to me. The rule is: "Show syntax that effects the current text". Since headings effect the entire line, it makes sense to me to show them when the selection is anywhere in the line. (Also since it's relatively cheap, no visual jumping)
But remember all of this configuration is done through CSS rules. They are an unsupported feature, but you can still use themes right now to get the old behavior back.
4 Posted by matt.m.crider on 24 Jun, 2012 05:49 PM
"I think it's arguable either way."
Well, that's because you're a geek. Why not make it easy for the non-geek (the rest of the world) and make the geek go into the unsupported CSS and change it, so that it works as you suggest? This is a no-brainer. (And, why a geek needs to see the syntax off to the left, when, being a geek, he's knows it without seeing it, I'll never know.)
Please reconsider. I speak for all those who aren't like you. Don't you want to sell to them? Why make them jump hurdles? They will be more easily put off than the geek who will persist to find all the features.
Matt
5 Posted by Scott on 24 Jun, 2012 10:10 PM
I would just like to add support for the changes to syntax hiding behavior in 0.5. As Jesse said above, it does make for more logical consistency. Now it is uniformly "select modified text, see syntax" whether that is a word in a block of text or a word in a header. Consistency is generally better, regardless of the type of user.
6 Posted by Jefferson on 24 Jun, 2012 11:08 PM
I'd chime in w/ my agreement on the points made by both Jesse and Scott.
As the MD syntax impacts the entire line, it'd be preferable to have it displayed while you're on the line, rather than just when your cursor is adjacent. Once you leave the line, the syntax mark-up should go invisible.
7 Posted by matt.m.crider on 25 Jun, 2012 12:48 AM
I don't get it. "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" (Said in the Mugato voice from Zoolander.)
Why would a developer make a less adept user hurdle over the CSS rules, when an perfectly adept geek could do it in his sleep? Again, I'm not asking for the ability to be taken away from anyone, but on the contrary I'm asking that the more skillful user be the one to go to the CSS rules and change the behavior, not the less skillful. "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"
And, I have yet to hear the actual argument FOR having the syntax to be seen when the cursor is anywhere on the line. Here's the argument so far:
1. It makes logical sense to me.
2. It makes for logical consistency.
3. It'd be preferable to have it displayed while you're on the line, rather than just when your cursor is adjacent.
At least I gave an argument with actual premises and conclusion. "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"
And,
1. Let the skilled user who wants to see the syntax go to the CSS rules.
2. You want it to consistent in your mind? Then, go to the CSS rules and change it.
3. If you prefer it, then go to the CSS rules and change it.
You want to see the syntax when on a line? Command-left-arrow, and bam, there it is. Why do I have to see it, when my cursor is in the middle of the line, just because you prefer it?
Jesse, I know you want to sell this thing. Your market, IMHO, should NOT be the skillful. You'll just limit yourself.
"I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"
Matt
8 Posted by mutahhir on 25 Jun, 2012 09:11 AM
Hi Matt,
Thanks for caring and helping us develop FoldingText into an amazing editor. Though i'm a geek myself, I think I understand where you're coming from. However, interestingly, the show syntax on current line is wasn't designed as a geek feature, actually the inverse. Even though you know whether a line is a heading, would you want to click on the exact line start to find out which level heading it is? or would a click anywhere on the line faster? And when you're on the line, just a glance rather than pressing Cmd+Left then Cmd+Right (and in case you're inserting within the line Cmd+Left then lots of Option+Rights or mouse click to precise location)?
Lets consider what's there to lose with this scheme: There's no visual jump associated with header syntaxes as Jesse mentioned. The syntax shows up in the left margin (outside the content area), so there's very little distortion where you're focusing. Also, after a few hours of using FoldingText, you'll expect it anyway and it'll make even less of an impact when you wont want it to. If you're experiencing any kind of impairment using this feature, we'd really like to know so that we can fix it.
We're definitely not making a product just for geeks, but having a solid default view coupled that most people would like coupled with a nice easy customisation system is IMO a win-win for everyone. Eventually, when we get around to it, people who don't want to mess with CSS won't really have to; someone out there having similar preferences would probably make a theme which could be shared and enjoyed.
Hope this helps.
9 Posted by matt.m.crider on 25 Jun, 2012 03:56 PM
Mutahhir,
Thanks for your reply. I do appreciate it. And, I appreciate the tone of your reply.
But, I must enthusiastically disagree. Perhaps, being a geek, you don't fully understand how non-geeks think. Let me help you.
In the prior-to-0.5 version, the non-geek looks at a heading and says, "That's a heading," and then says to himself, "Is it big enough or too big? I'll hit tab and shift-tab until it's right, if necessary."
When the non-geek is on a list, he says to himself, "Hey, I'm on a list. Do I want this line to be a list?" Conversely, when the non-geek is on a regular line, he says, "Hey, I'm on a regular line. Should I be? Should this be a listed line?"
When the non-geek is on a numbered list line, he says, "Wow, I'm on a numbered list line. Should this line be numbered?"
All this and not once did it ever occur to the non-geek that he needed to do the extremely-hard, next-to-impossible, incredible-time-delaying keystroke combo of command-left to see the syntax.
You state:
"Even though you know whether a line is a heading, would you want to click on the exact line start to find out which level heading it is? or would a click anywhere on the line faster?"
You've missed the point. The non-geek is not going to need to see how many #'s there are to understand anything about the heading. In fact, the non-geek is going to look incredulously at the geek for the geek's need to see it!
Perhaps, you have in mind a multi-page document, where the user wants to match the heading style from a couple of pages back. Well, in that scenario both the geek and non-geek would have to cursor back to the appropriate line to see the context, so there really isn't much of a difference burden, is there?
So, again, Jesse, please revert to the earlier version's behavior in this regard. There doesn't appear to be any good reason not to.
Thanks.
Matt
Support Staff 10 Posted by Jesse Grosjean on 25 Jun, 2012 04:38 PM
I’m going to need to just let this sit for a bit. Lets drop this topic for now, but feel free to bring it back up when I start to talk about getting ready for the official release.
Jesse Grosjean closed this discussion on 25 Jun, 2012 04:38 PM.